The fiery furnace

"Alaska Birch" by Theresa Gomes

We are friends with an ambitious family who produces and sells birch syrup. They tap birch trees all over interior Alaska and boil it down into a delicious brown syrup. Imagine this: it takes 100 gallons of birch sap to make 1 gallon of birch syrup! To help this process, they purchased an impressive evaporator machine that is fueled by a firebox. 

This firebox is chilling - you could fit a person in there. They have affectionately named it "the fiery furnace" as sometimes the heat is so severe that you have to shield your face to feed it more wood.

Naturally, I couldn't help but think about hell as I gazed into the fire.

And my thoughts went something like this: "Look at those burning coals. What if I put my hand in there? What kind of pain would that produce? What if I was stuffed in there and the door shut? Who could imagine the agony experienced until the moment of death. But, what if I didn't die? What if I was unable to die and was kept alive and conscious to experience the fiery, excruciating pain? There are people who believe this. Some Christians actually believe this is what will happen to certain sinners. They believe that God Himself will keep people alive with the purpose of tormenting them - not even for a long time, but forever. Who could believe that? Who could truly believe that without going insane? To believe Jesus would do that would drive a believer mad. The Jesus I know would not do that!!!"

The only way a person could remain consciously tormented for an eternity (ETERNITY, folks) would be if God Himself chose, and continued to choose, to make them alive and unable to die to the suffering, which traditionalists purport will be unending.

Yes, Jesus will make an end of sin - but not by the means of torture. Jesus will make all things new. His plan is to get rid of evil! No more sin, no more death, no more sickness and pain - no more wicked. Destruction in the lake of fire fits perfectly with God's plan. It is just while merciful. The wages of sin is death, while the gift of eternal life is given to the redeemed. Destruction in the lake of fire is eternal - there is no coming back - it is indeed a final punishment.

I will never be able to gaze at hot coals again without thinking on these things. It's true, the thoughts are emotional, but then again God gave us the ability to think and emote. Perhaps if we all took a few minutes to consider our doctrine, a closer look would be called for.

So, take a moment. Look closer at the fiery furnace. What do you see?

"Through me the message might be fully proclaimed"

Paul is one of our most valuable teachers in the Bible. He declares, "I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ" (Romans 13:19) and "...the Lord stood at my side and gave me strength, so that through me the message might be fully proclaimed..." (2 Tim. 4:17).

In this day, Bible teacher Dirk Waren compiled a comprehensive list of instances in Paul's teachings where he expounds on judgment and punishment. I found this list compelling - it reveals that the traditionalist idea of eternal torment is absent. The point is, of course, that if eternal conscious suffering was a future reality Paul would have boldly proclaimed that, as well.

Instead...

"Paul fully proclaimed the whole counsel of God by plainly declaring:

That those who live a lifestyle of unrepentant sin “deserve death” — Romans 1:32

That “all who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law” — Romans 2:12

That sin “leads to death” — Romans 6:16

That sin “results in death” — Romans 6:21

That “the wages of sin is death” — Romans 6:23

That those who live according to the sinful nature “will die” — Romans 8:13

That the gospel is foolishness “to those who are perishing” — 1 Corinthians 1:18

That “in Adam all die” — 1 Corinthians 15:22

That those who preach the gospel are “the smell of death” “to those who are perishing” — 2 Corinthians 2:15-16

That the Old Testament law “kills” and ultimately brings “death” — 2 Corinthians 3:6-7

That the gospel is “veiled to those who are perishing” — 2 Corinthians 4:3

That those who please the sinful nature “from that nature will reap destruction” – Galatians 6:8

That “they will be destroyed” — Philippians 1:28

That “their destiny is destruction” — Philippians 3:19

That “they will be punished with everlasting destruction” — 2 Thessalonians 1:9

That they “are perishing” — 2 Thessalonians 2:10

That “they perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved” — 2 Thessalonians 2:10

That “Christ Jesus… has destroyed death” — 2 Timothy 1:10

We can add these four if Paul was the writer of Hebrews:

That they are like worthless land that will “in the end… be burned” — Hebrews 6:8

That sins are “acts that lead to death” — Hebrews 9:14

That raging fire “will consume the enemies of God” — Hebrews 10:27

That those who “shrink back” in unbelief will be “destroyed” — Hebrews 10:39

"In various ways with various words Paul was sure to repeatedly declare precisely what would happen to those who foolishly reject the gospel. He was sure to do this because God appointed him to fully proclaim the whole counsel of God. Paul didn’t hide any aspect of the truth — including the awful truth that those who reject Christ will be utterly destroyed by the raging, consuming fire of the Lord. If words have any meaning at all then this is what we must conclude."

"Allow me to add that if Jesus supposedly preached eternal torture, as many contend, then Paul would have certainly backed it up. Yet Paul taught no such thing because Jesus taught no such thing, not to mention the Bible they taught from — what we now know as the Old Testament — teaches no such thing."

To see the full study: The_Apostle_Paul_Proclaimed_The_Whole_Will_of_God by Dirk Waren

Recommended Reading: Hell Know! by Dirk Waren

Conversation starter

This would not be your average conversation. No, this is the conversation about hell.

I finally watched the movie "Hellbound" on Netflix, and it exceeded my expectations. The movie is well made and gives a platform to different views. In my opinion, it is slanted towards Universalism, but works well as a springboard for much soul-searching and even more Scripture searching. I recommend the movie for older audiences.

I'm not crazy about the movie cover; it makes the film seem a bit mocking. No matter. Rather it is a serious documentary with a variety of voices. If you would like to own the movie, visit hellboundthemovie.com and find it there, along with many other resources, including my blog site!

Are you more like Lazarus - or the rich man?

What about that poor beggar Lazarus, anyway? (Read Luke 16:19-31) We don't really know much about him. I wish we had more information. Was he a righteous man? Did he know the Law? What did he do - besides suffer sickness, homelessness, hunger and death - that made him deserving of all that comfort?

"And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at [the rich man's] gate, covered with sores, and longing to be fed with the crumbs that were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. Now the poor man died..."  - Luke 16:20-22

Jesus was speaking to and directing this parable at the Pharisees (Luke 16:14). What was his message to them? They were smugly believing that Hades (Hebrew: Sheol) was reserved for those quite unlike themselves. They themselves were well-groomed, religious, better than others, "blessed" with prosperity. Oh, how Jesus offended them - and they were scoffing at Him!

Perhaps those of us here in the abundance of America should feel a bit tremulous as we reflect on Jesus’ words: “But woe to you who are rich, for you are receiving your comfort in full. Woe to you who are well-fed now, for you shall be hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you shall mourn and weep." (Luke 6:24-25) I, for one, know that I have always been well-fed. Compared to 95% of the world, we are all very rich in the U.S., isn’t that right?

So, as we consider Jesus' parable, we should ask ourselves, "Who do I identify with more: Lazarus or the rich man?"


Taken from:  The Parable about Hell - or Not

Book review: Erasing Hell

I am finally writing a review of sorts on the book Erasing Hell by Francis Chan and Preston Sprinkle as promised in one of my early posts called “Erasing Hell: What a great idea”* (see link below). I read the book back in the days of my intense study on final judgment when a defender of hell suggested it as a solution to my concerns.

I actually like Francis Chan from what I can discern about him. He seems very sincere and passionate and wants to be humble. The introduction in the book was so familiar, like something I could have written. It gave me hope he would present a biblical, well thought-out study on the subject. In fact, the first part of the book does give some good, basic information on the doctrine of hell and the passages commonly associated with that subject.

I was pleased that he came to the same conclusion as I did about the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Namely, that “...this passage doesn't refer to the final state of the wicked – only to a temporary state where the wicked await judgment.” 2 So, that parable does not teach about 'hell' (like Mr. Chan's friend and contemporary Mark Driscoll preaches) and that Hades is not the same as Gehenna - unfortunately, both words are translated as hell in many translations.

He discusses and makes a long and thorough case against universalism and Rob Bell. He also addresses annihilationism (a general term encompassing those who believe that the lake of fire will ultimately destroy the wicked) but does not shoot it down like he does with universalism. I was pleased that he gave credence to that view.

However, as he came to his conclusions, the annihilist view was completely forgotten. He concluded that the traditional doctrine of eternal torment in a place he continually called 'hell' was the only biblical truth he could endorse.

That is not only frustrating, but baffling! Mr. Chan goes through the trouble to give us the facts about final judgment, but then turns his back on a legitimate view of judgment as if he demonstrated it was false. Which he didn't!

They state in the book, “At times, Jesus seems to imply that hell won't last very long. 'Fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell,' Jesus says (Matt. 10:28). Destroy, not burn forever. This language of destruction is common not only in Jesus' words but also throughout Paul's letters.” (emphasis is Chan's) 3

They also write: “In almost every passage where Jesus mentions hell, he doesn't explicitly say that it will last forever. He speaks of torment, and we get the impression that hell is terrible, that it's a place to be avoided at all costs, but He doesn't clearly tell us how long it will last.” 4

Francis himself admits,“The debate about hell's duration is much more complex than I first assumed. While I lean heavily on the side that says it is everlasting, I am not ready to claim that with complete certainty. I encourage you to continue researching...” 5 So, bless his heart, he confesses that, for him, he realizes there is no certainty in eternal torment. Why are we not then teaching this? I did continue researching and the weight of Scripture has not come down on the side of eternal torment! That we would all take Francis Chan's advice on this point!

I have written over 40 posts on this subjects, but if you were to ask me where to go for 'further research' without the hours and hours of study (although I recommend this), I would send you to the following website, which I found recently (March 2015):

http://www.hellhadesafterlife.com/hell/hell-in-the-bible#My_BackgroundI_Used_to_Believe_in_Eternal_Torment

So, back to Erasing Hell. There is some good information in there, but just like any bit of information, if you have 90% truth and 10% error (or deceit) then you have an untrustworthy body of information.

I believe Chan's prayer in his introduction. He wants God's truth. I prayed almost the same prayer myself every time I sought to study the subject. The important part of seeking the truth in these extremely unclear areas is to realize that it is foolishness to claim absolute conclusions. Who can say, “I have figured out God's ways in the Judgment and this is how He will do things...”?

I am uncertain exactly how God will execute judgment on the world, but I have become increasingly confident that eternal torment is not part of God's ways or character. My goal is to bring this subject into the light of Scripture to be examined and scrutinized because the implications of eternal torment are, in my opinion, too great to accept without careful and labored attention.

The fact is, those who hold to conditionalism or annihilationism believe in 'hell' (although I don't choose to use that unbiblical word). It is the nature of hell that is on trial. It is our human traditions that are on trial. In other words, conditionalists are not trying to erase hell. To imply that they are is an erroneous view and, frankly, deceitful. By throwing annihilationism in with universalism (which I have seen repeatedly) robs believers of valuable information in forming their Scriptural world view. In this way, it is a shame that Erasing Hell was not more forthcoming and honest. As with many mainstream (approved) evangelical books, it had an agenda.

Wouldn't I love to sit down for coffee with Francis and have some hours of conversation on this topic, among others. As a sister and brother in Christ, getting to the heart of it all. Somehow, I think under all the political and peer pressure, past all the traditional contemporaries breathing down his back, deep down he senses something isn't right with eternal torment.

And he wouldn't be alone. Chan's co-author on this very book has changed his views from traditional to conditional.

"Hell is a crucial topic, especially for evangelicals. And it needs to be revisited. Rethinking Hell is doing the church a great service by stirring discussion and forcing us to read what the Bible says about Hell."  - Preston Sprinkle, co-author of Erasing Hell6

* http://thinkabouthell.blogspot.erasing-hell

2 Erasing Hell: What God said about eternity and the things we made up, Francis Chan and Preston Sprinkle, published by David C Cook, Colorado Springs, CO., p. 80, 89.

3 Chan and Preston, p. 79.

4 Chan and Preston, p. 81.

5 Chan and Preston, p. 86.
6 Rethinkinghell.com

The unbelievable-ness of eternal torment

My children and I are reading through the series The Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis. There is a humorous exchange in the book, The Horse and His Boy, when a rich and powerful princess was asked to make her servants keep a secret. This was her statement to them: “Here. All of you... anyone I catch talking about this... will be first beaten to death and then burned alive and after that be kept on bread and water for six weeks. There.”1 Although the threat was grave, it was not believable. The same phenomenon can be seen with the doctrine of hell.

Although many say they believe it, their actions seem to deny that.

This observation came up in the post “Confession: I've always hated hell”. Here is the excerpt:

“What is going on here that we can contend that such a reality exists without being overcome by holy fear? In addition, if we really believed this was the destiny of non-Christians all around us, wouldn’t there be weeping and begging and endless sorrowful prayer? Would you not make an outrageous commotion to save someone from a burning building? And even being burned alive on earth is temporary suffering. 

If we actually believe they all go to this hell, I say our hearts are yet stone. 

If we really believe it, when we stand before the King and Judge of creation, could He possibly ask what we have done in response to our belief about hell? 

Will there not be consequences as we stand before the Throne with this doctrine in our pocket, yet the sorrow of its implications lacking? Before we even get to the question ‘is it a true doctrine or not’, we need to ask: am I living what I say I believe? 

To believe in this hell is a fearful thing indeed. There is no avoiding the terrifying implications. In fact, it seems to me that it is such a horrifying concept that we really can’t get our brains around it – like the size of the universe. Who can imagine? 

I think one reason I have come to a burdensome place concerning this topic is because when I contemplate ‘what if it is really true?’ – then I kind of lose my mind. Maybe it’s just me, but I just can’t handle that reality – there is something so beyond horrifying, so much more than absolutely dreadful. And to think, I was just a decision away from being there. I deserve to be there just as much as my nice, Hindu neighbor – probably more. 

And just maybe I will stand in front of Jesus and say “Lord, Lord” and He’ll reply “I never knew you”! I just start to lose it, I feel like I’ll go crazy. I imagine being in hell – and I’m conscious of being there - and it never ends. I imagine my loved ones being there, who I just couldn’t convince – maybe I didn’t pray enough?... Oh, merciful God, how can it be true? 

Tell me, truly, do you believe it?”2

Conditional immortality determines from Scripture that those who do not inherit eternal life will be destroyed by experiencing the second death. This belief has been criticized as characterized by “sentimentality” but that consequence is actually fairly terrifying. Annihilation is a severe and permanent (eternal) punishment. It is not a walk in the park, as some traditionalists would try to paint it. Also, in light of God's mercy and justice and holy Word, it is believable.

John W. Wenham notes, “Conditionalists regard their doctrine as providing a more effective deterrent than the traditional teaching, on the ground that the latter is incredible to those who hear and is simply not believed. The point was put by a writer... 'We only imagine we believe it... Nothing that is over-strained, or seems exaggerated, strikes the Mind. Let a Schoolmaster tell his Scholar that his Father will hang him if he doth not study; he laughs at the Menace. It is too much disproportion'd both to his own Demerits, and the Idea he entertains of his Father's Equity.'”3

Do I know my Father in Heaven? Does His character as revealed in the Bible prove that He is capable of tormenting His creation for time without end? I try to avoid philosophic thinking, but at some point one needs to consider the reasonableness of it all – but always in the light of Scripture.

Does not God say, “Come now, and let us reason together.” (Is. 1:18)? He does, indeed, expect us to use our minds as we are able. Not independent of Him, but with Him. In total reliance and trust in Him. Abiding, knowing, seeking - “...I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord... that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection...” (Read Phil. 3)

I am certainly convicted as I copy those verses into a page of my own opinions. Do I know Him? Does He know me? This is my reminder to continue to strive to know Him and abide in Him. May we all know Him more. Dear Jesus, draw each of us closer to You, that we may say confidently with Your beloved disciple...

“We know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.” (1 John 5:20)

Now, that is something to believe.

1 C.S. Lewis, The Horse and His Boy, Collier Books, New York. 1954. p. 95.

2 http://thinkabouthell.blogspot.com/p/about-me-and-hell.html

3 John W. Wenham, The Goodness of God, InterVarsity Press, Downers Grove, IL. 1974. p. 37.

Proof texts about hell - what do they prove?

It seemed about time to address these so-called proof texts for the doctrine of 'hell'. I have posted about several of them in detail individually, but I realized something interesting about them overall.

What I saw was this: The mainstream verses that folks use to support eternal torment are either symbolic or allegorical, or they are drawn from a parable.

You can review the definitions of these types of writings (or ideas) below. What strikes me is that they are not literal, but many times must be interpreted or explained by the rest of Scripture. Taken alone, their meanings would be at the mercy of the reader, concluding any number of interpretations that may or may not be biblical.

The verses have no fault; they are as God-breathed as the rest of Scripture.

The fault of interpretation will always fall with us, the reader, if there be any. It is pretty tough to muddle a literal command, "Love one another" or a teaching, "Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith..".

There are all kinds of temptations in interpretation when it comes to symbolic language. Some of it is just mysterious - and we do well to wait on God and pray for revelation and discernment.

One thing we know - much can be deduced by using the full counsel of God's word in our meditating and studying. Another sure fact - if we start with a doctrine and only focus on the verses that seem to fit and support its conclusions, then we are headed on the road of self-deception!

As far as looking at each one of these 'proof' texts about 'hell', I found a quicker way to address them! In my research I came across a great website with a study called "The Bible and Hell: Supposed Proof Texts for Eternal Torture". It goes into fine detail about most of them. Although their study differs with mine in some minor areas, I thought they did a great job of explanation and I suggest you read their post:

http://www.hellhadesafterlife.com/hell/what-bible-says-about-hell

"Watch your life and doctrine closely." (1 Tim. 4:16)

Allegories are typically used as literary devices or rhetorical devices that convey hidden meanings through symbolic figures, actions, imagery, and/or events, which together create the moral, spiritual, or political meaning the author wishes to convey.

A parable is a succinct, didactic story, in prose or verse, which illustrates one or more instructive lessons or principles. Parables have human characters and are a type of analogy.

An analogy is a comparison between two things, typically on the basis of their structure and for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

Symbolism is the use of symbols to represent ideas or qualities. A symbol is an object that represents, stands for, or suggests an idea, visual image, belief, action, or material entity.

Not heretical, not wacky

Conditionalism (its name derived from the concept of conditional immortality) is a set of beliefs about final punishment that denies the traditional understanding of hell - specifically that God will torment the unsaved forever.

Admittedly, there are many belief systems 'out there' that deny hell and yet are not biblical. This is not the case with conditionalism.

The doctrine of hell is, in my understanding (I believe God gave me this understanding), unbiblical. For this reason I choose to bring it into the light to be examined as effectively as I can.

I do not claim to know beyond a doubt that conditionalism is the 100% correct view on final punishment. It is a view that has more biblical support than the traditional view and that is why I hold loosely to it.

Am I alone? Is it so crazy, is it so heretical to believe that perhaps we've gone astray in some of our doctrine? Read the following excerpt to find out who else holds these beliefs:

"A growing host of respected biblical scholars now publicly question the traditional notion that God will keep the lost alive forever so he can punish them without end. These include such luminaries as F.F. Bruce, Michael Green, Philip E. Hughes, Dale Moody, Clark H. Pinnock, W. Graham Scroggie, John R. W. Stott and John W. Wenham. 

These men represent evangelical Christian scholarship at its best. They recognize that Scripture must judge all traditions and creeds, not the other way around. They realize that most of the church was wrong for centuries on doctrines far more fundamental than the doctrine of hell, and they understand that it would be presumptuous to suppose that the majority might not have erred on this point just as it did on others. 

J.I. Packer rightly notes that "we are forbidden to become enslaved to human tradition,... even 'evangelical' tradition. We may never assume the complete rightness of our own established ways of thought and practice and excuse ourselves the duty of testing and reforming them by Scripture." 

John Stott reminds us that "the hallmark of an authentic evangelicalism is not the uncritical repetition of old traditions but the willingness to submit every tradition, however ancient, to fresh biblical scrutiny and, if necessary, reform." 

The growing evangelical rejection of the traditional doctrine of unending conscious torment is not propelled by emotionalism, sentimentality or compromise with culture but by absolute commitment to the authority of Scripture and by the conviction that a faithful church must be a church that is always reforming."1

1 Edward William Fudge and Robert A. Peterson, Two Views of Hell, p. 21. InterVarsity Press, 2000.

Eternally separated - a myth?

It was so strange.

Even after all my studies and research, I still assumed that the phrase "eternally separated from God" was in the Bible. And it wasn't just the concept; I have heard that phrase so many times and have said it myself many times. I had even thought it was a 'safe' way for those who still wanted to believe in hell to feel that they were expressing their doctrine while still being biblical.

Well, guess what I couldn't find in the Bible?

This post has been a long time in the making. It was probably a year ago when I was writing or researching a topic and decided to look up "eternally separated" to get a clearer idea of what the Bible was saying with that phrase. It disturbed me how it sounded like a conscious state of being. 

And, as you have probably guessed, it was not to be found.

Now hold on. If you are familiar with judgment verses then 2 Thess. 1:9 will come to mind. Certainly that clearly says some will be eternally separated from the Lord. Or does it?

The NASB translation reads: "These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord...". Some translations (like NLT) say 'separated from' but the actual word there in the original language is just the preposition 'apo' basically meaning 'from'. The word 'separated' is not there at all.

There is a similar situation in Romans 9:3 where Paul says, "For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren...". That word 'separated' is italicized in honest translations, indicating that the actual word is not there. Again, it is just the preposition 'apo' meaning 'from'. 

It is not evil or unreasonable to assume that 'separated' is implied in these instances. However, since the actual word 'separated' (for example, chorizo, in Romans 8:35,39 - "who will separate us from the love of Christ?") is not used in the original language, it should not be inserted with careless certainty.

There may be a very solid reason the word separated is not used. It may be that the Bible doesn't teach eternal [conscious] separation; and that God does not intend to cause people to exist in an eternal conscious state for the sole purpose of torturing them forever. God and His people over here and the lost over there. Separated. But that isn't what the Word says.

2 Thess. 1:9 may mean just what it says. Certain ones will be punished in the age to come by being destroyed - never to see the face of the Lord again.

This corresponds to the parables of Jesus, when he described how certain ones would be 'thrown out' (Luke 13:28, Matt. 22:13), or when He will declare, "Depart from Me" (Matt. 7:23, 25:41). As God is the giver of life and the source of it, if He casts from His presence, there remains nothing for that one except death (destruction). How could a mere mortal survive without the life that comes from God?

Immortality is a gift from God alone. If that one does not receive the Life from Jesus, then that one's mortality is realized in full.

Now, beyond eternal considerations, there is a very real separation from God that can happen in the life of a person in the land of the living. "Your iniquities have separated you from your God..." (Is. 59:2) "Remember at that time you were separate from Christ... without hope and without God in the world." (Eph. 2:12). Someone who dies having rejected Jesus is already "separated from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18).

This clarification of separation from God may seem trivial or even imperceptible to some. However, if 'eternally separated' implies consciousness, then it is misleading concerning the nature of God's judgment. And that, in my estimation, is a big deal.

If you use the phrase "eternally separated from God" when you teach others, please study it out for yourself in the Bible. If it is not there, please consider removing that phrase from your vocabulary for the purpose of sound doctrine. (If it is there, please let me know straight away!)

Sound doctrine

How important is sound doctrine?

I have received some criticism about making 'too big a deal' out of the possible error of the traditional doctrine of hell. It has not been a popular topic of discussion among Christians. I realize I am biased because of my extensive investment through study, but I actually thought believers would show some concern. I expected them to be like the Bereans....

"...these were more noble-minded... examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so."  - Acts 17:11

After all, we are told to:

"Examine everything carefully..."  - 1 Thess. 5:21

and

"Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching."  - 1 Tim. 4:16

There is a significant reason for those who teach to be extra diligent: 

"...teachers.. will incur a stricter judgment."  - James 3:1

We must be vigilant of those who are "...teaching as doctrines the precepts of men."  - Matt.15:9 (see also Mark 7:13)

Those with spiritual authority have a weighty responsibility to "...speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine."  - Titus 2:1

He must "...hold fast the faithful word...that he may be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict."  - Titus 1:9

As believers, we must all be "...nourished on the words of the faith and of sound doctrine..."  - 1 Tim 4:6

And

"Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort... for the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine... and will turn their ears away from the truth, and will turn aside to myths."  - 2 Tim. 4:2-4

So, what is the way to obtain and hold sound doctrine? Know the Scriptures and know the One who gave them to us!

"...you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness." - 2 Tim. 3:15-16

As for studying about final punishment and judgment (including "hell" which is a word that isn't even in the original language, but has become such a common concept in Christianity) it is important because it was considered "an elementary teaching" and "a foundation" of belief. (See Hebrews 5:12 and 6:1-2)

Now that we see how clearly sound doctrine is promoted and commanded in Scripture, let's take some advice from Paul on how to deal with opposing views:

He teaches us "...not to wrangle about words, which is useless... handling accurately the word of truth... avoid worldly empty chatter... refuse foolish and ignorant speculations... they produce quarrels... we must not be quarrelsome, but be kind... with gentleness correcting those in opposition." - 2 Tim. 2:15,23-25

If the Church is in error on a major doctrine (as we have been in the past, before the Reformation), shouldn't we actually make 'a big deal' out of that? Yes, it will be unpopular, but we should be more concerned with truth and alignment with God than with human precepts made powerful by tradition.

So again I exhort you: "Examine everything carefully!"  

Jesus has come to save your soul

I am reading an extremely satisfying and thought-provoking book by Richard Wurmbrand, a Romanian Jew and evangelical pastor who spent a total of 14 years in Communist prisons. He began the organization Voice of the Martyrs. He wrote several books, including Tortured for Christ, but the title of the book I am currently reading is The Oracles of God. This is where I came across the statement: "Jesus has come to save your soul." (p. 47)

Jesus has come to save your soul.

This true statement brings about a question for me. Perhaps you have asked it yourself. Jesus has come to save us from WHAT exactly? The answer could be a multiplicity of dangers, really. But rather than imagine the possible consequences of all our sinful choices, I would like to dive straight to the heart.

Jesus has come to save you from 'hell' (eternal conscious torment).

Jesus has come to save you from sin [and its consequences].

These two possible answers are what I imagine would result if we boiled down the responses of believers to the question, "What does Jesus save us from?". You may have recognized that the 'consequences' of the second option could be said to include hell, but if we rule out option one then it would cease to apply to the latter.

(I meant for this to be a quick point. In my mind it was quick and briefly understood - but here I go again with so many words!)

Jesus.
Jesus has come.
Jesus has come to save.
Jesus has come to save your soul.

The Word says from the foundation of the world, Jesus was already marked to die His gruesome, humiliating and torturous death as a ransom for sinful humans. As we turn this Great Sacrifice over in our minds, we are amazed that the Father would allow for this unfair exchange - His perfect Son for the dirty rags we are. Why did He die for us?

Did He really die to save us from a fate that He created? The eternal fire was prepared specifically for Satan and his angels (Matthew 25:41). Unmistakably, God is the author of the lake of fire. Did God set up eternal torment in the lake of fire so that He would have to turn around and kill His Son to save us from it? This is just another reason I do not believe in the idea of forever torment. Again, it would be contrary to God's character and purpose to offer up His Son to a violent death to save His people from His own creation - the so-called hell of eternal torment!

The eternal fire that is also called the lake of fire and the second death is what I believe to be a great purger of sin. If you are 'all' sin, like Satan, then you will be completely destroyed. (see the study "Everyone will be salted with fire" )

So now we turn to consider sin.

Is God the author of sin? No, God did not author sin nor has it any part in Him. Now this I could see Him rising up against.

Sin as the blot on His people, sin the great destroyer - the agent that brings about death and ruin. Once ruined, always ruined, right? No. God said no, I will cleanse them Myself with the most powerful action the earth has ever seen: the shedding of the holy Lamb's blood as a ransom payment for sin, all sin, once for all. (Rom. 6:10, 1 Tim. 2:6, Heb. 9:15)

Jesus indeed has come to save our souls. He saved our souls from sin. When the power of sin is broken, Satan loses all his so-called power. He is nothing, really. When sin is defeated and taken away, so the consequences of sin also disappear: evil, death, destruction and all its sufferings and sorrows. Gone forever. All is made new.

Be glad and rejoice! Jesus has come to save your soul from sin!

"Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"  - John 1:29 

"He has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself."  -  Heb. 9:26

The wrong end of truth

Just now as I was reading through a Bible study by a 'universalist' believer, I realized that quite possibly I have been concerned with the wrong end of truth. This particular author articulated some very convincing arguments about how the Lord will destroy wickedness (as opposed to the wicked) and abolish sin (as opposed to the sinner) with His refining fire. Essentially, purging each of His creations until all are made new. The writer proved this by stating that Jesus came to seek and save that which was lost.

And so, as I thought over the arguments, I mulled over several 'technicalities' that I could hold up and against those assertions. However, as I thought over the heart of the matter, I was very pleased with the author's conclusions. The scriptural evidence for all being saved is at least as strong as the evidence for eternal torment. The real question is: what is God's heart in all of this? I'm not sure about you, but it rings so true that God our Father, who allowed His Son to die for the world, would make a way to redeem His people. All of His people.

But here I go on a tangent. It would be ridiculous to begin to defend the universalist position after what I just came to. I've come to an understanding, but is it possible to communicate?

God is obviously not about the technical, academic, point-by-point argument for one doctrine over another. We miss the heart when we try to define truth. JESUS is the truth. His purpose will stand. He will accomplish all He has in His heart and without fail. What a sad event for us to miss the boat that Jesus commands. Faith and trust lift us into His boat and we must abide and submit to ride along with Him.

But what about discovering a specific truth - what about judgment of the wicked? Can we know what will happen to them? To us?

It seems apparent that God has left several doors open in different areas of 'doctrine'. Have you noticed that?

An example is free will vs God's sovereignty. There is plenty of 'scriptural evidence' on both sides of that debate to keep it going until Jesus returns. Do you think that is an unfortunate failing of the Bible? To be unclear about salvation? What about 'once saved, always saved'? Many debates there. 'Do you need to be baptized to be saved?' There are many doctrines and points of belief that Christians argue over and defend with passion. Many times these arguments cause divisions. Should we think that these divisions are a shocking result to God? No doubt our divisions cause Him grief, but He must have allowed for all these positions.

He knew we would be tempted to grab our position and hold to it and defend it.

He opened several doors for our belief about judgment of the wicked. The most common including eternal torment, annihilation and refining redemption. Ask yourself, why did He do this?

I believe He did this to test us.

"For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart."                                          - Hebrews 4:12

As we grab on to doctrines and hold tight and begin to love them more than people - or even hurt others with our defenses, then we expose ourselves in God's sight. His word judges our thoughts and intentions.

Perhaps more important than the technical rightness of a doctrine, is our response to what we believe God is telling us. What we believe is a test itself. How we respond to what we believe is a test. The test is a judgment. God's word judges the heart. Jesus is the Word. Jesus is the Truth. He knows our hearts already, but His word can pierce into our very souls and expose our thoughts and intentions - our very hearts.

So, I am finding that instead of trying to convince people that what I have found is 'the truth'. I need to live the truth and live in Jesus and do what I can to encourage others to do that very thing. They don't need to believe what I believe - they need to be IN JESUS.

Also, I need to stop judging people for what they believe about hell, and let God's word do that. I've seen that my sin (judging others, pride, wrangling about words, etc.) will never bring God's light into another's life. And, after all, that is what Jesus has called us to be: lights.

Father, help me to be a light of encouragement. Please take judgment out of my heart. Give me the power and courage to live what I know to be true in You. May I know You more.

To be in error is a dreadful thing

"To be in error is a dreadful thing, but it is even worse to embrace truth for the wrong reasons: because it is convenient, because it is pleasant, because it is profitable, because it is socially acceptable. God wants us to love the truth. It is the water of life He offers us. Don't adulterate it with pollutants.
Love truth for its own sake, and it will come to you."

 - Richard Wurmbrand, "The Oracles of God", p. 16

You mean they get away with it!?

I've been thinking about a baffling situation. It just doesn't make sense. So I turn it over and over in my mind, trying to see it from different angles. It just never makes sense.

Here is the conundrum: Sometimes when I share my study about final punishment (and hell) with other believers, they are resistant to the thought that there may not be eternal conscious torment.

That's it. That's the thing that baffles me.

Christian people - actual Bible-believing human beings - who know about God, know they are but dust, are somehow defensive about their belief in an eternal fire that punishes forever. They seem to get almost angry over the suggestion that there might not be such a place.

If I begin to give biblical evidence to show the hope in Scripture against forever torment, they put up a hand to stop it. I've even seen them cover their ears with their hands. "I don't want to hear it. You'll never convince me otherwise."

And what is the reason? If we get past the traditional verses used (but not studied in context) - i.e. Lazarus and the rich man, worm that doesn't die, smoke that rises 'forever' - then a certain attitude of the heart emerges.

They usually say something like, "You mean to say they get away with it?" And I would respond, still incredulous, "Do you think being destroyed and never being able to attain eternal life is getting away with anything?"

"That is not punishment! What about paying for their sins? They deserve hell if they reject Jesus. If they are destroyed in the lake of fire, then they are basically getting off easy! What about people like Hitler who deserve to suffer for all eternity?"

Hitler you say. Okay, let's torture Hitler forever. Now then, what about my brother - does he deserve to suffer for all eternity? What about me, for that matter? And you? We are all sinners, aren't we? All fall short. There is none righteous. Not. even. one.

Dirk Waren, a minister who explains conditional immortality with great clarity, wrote in exasperation about those who think destruction isn't a just punishment:

"Can anyone look me in the eyes with a straight face and tell me that such a terrible and utter obliteration as this is not severe enough? I must ask once again, how much harsher does God’s just judgment on humanity need to be? I’m flabbergasted that anyone would suggest that this is not a severe enough punishment. In fact, I’ll go so far as to say this (with no apologies): Anyone who feels the unrighteous should suffer a severer punishment is sick, sadistic and wicked."1

Even our faith to believe is a gift from God. And those who belong to Satan have been blinded by him. Where does your sense of justice come from? And we, being sinful creatures, don't even publicly condone torture as a just punishment for even the worst crimes. What is the harshest penalty we give out? Death. It is death.

Do you find torture abhorrent in this life? Why would you find it acceptable in the next?

So, what is this all about? How can there be such a willingness to have hell. Even a desire for hell to exist. I don't know. Maybe they have someone in mind that did terrible things and they are comforted believing that that person will suffer forever because of it. Hmmm. Sounds like unforgiveness to me.

What could you possibly gain by the torment of another - and for ETERNITY for that matter! What kind of justice is that? What kind of glory does God receive from that? What kind of satisfaction does a person receive knowing about this kind of 'reality'?

Do we believe that the same Jesus who tenderly asked, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" will soon be throwing (they say millions) into a fiery torturous existence that has no escape? Will He then be pummeling His creation with rocks (that would be a fine torment) for all time, not allowing anyone to die and be able to escape the pain and remorse?

You'd THINK that folks would at least want to hear the biblical evidence (or you could say biblical argument) against eternal conscious torment. At least once - give it a chance. If it is not biblical then by all means, reject it! However, imagine if this tradition of torment is just a doctrine of man! Wouldn't we want to be aware of it and teach accordingly?

And If I am so wrong, friend and fellow believer, then am I not a false teacher? And shouldn't I be told of my sin and shown the ways I have gone wrong? Shouldn't it be pointed out how I have used Scripture out of context and twisted the meanings of our most beloved verses? It would be the loving thing to point it out to me.

Believe me, no one 'gets away with it'. God is not mocked. God is just. He has also told me over and over (maybe He has told you also) that He is merciful and compassionate. May we at least attain to being like our Father. He also told us He is making all things new. (Goodbye evil!)

As I see it, the only ones getting away with anything are those who are rescued and get to participate in the Great Exchange, where Jesus dies in our place.

Now, that is really getting away with something!


1 http://www.hellhadesafterlife.com/hell/hell-everlasting-destruction

Just as...

God gives us a picture for our understanding

'Just as' verses explain to us plainly how it will be at the final judgment. Just as the tares, dried branches, and Sodom and Gomorrah were judged and destroyed by being 'burned up with fire' so will it be in Jesus' great Judgment at the end of the age. 

"So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age… and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matt. 13:40) See Matthew 3:12 where it is explained, "He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” (Unquenchable just means that the fire is unstoppable - it will succeed in burning up the chaff. This has nothing to do with forever torments!)

"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away [just] as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned."  (John 15:6)

"And just as it happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking… but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed."  (Luke 17:28-30)

"…just as Sodom and Gomorrah…, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality…, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire." (Jude 1:7 - the reality of 'eternal fire' is revealed, explained and illustrated in Sodom and Gomorrah's experience of destruction)

Besides the following verses, what else has been or will be 'burned up'? The harlot/Babylon (Rev. 18:8), the old heavens and earth (2 Pet. 3:10), and Edom (Is. 34). God appears to indeed be a consuming fire. And His judgments are true.

Even believers experience a judgment of fire (1 Cor. 3:10-15). God's judgments of fire have nothing to do with some agonizing molten 'hell'.

So, when the Bible states that something is "just as" something else, do you believe it?

If not, why not?


Taken from "Everyone will be salted with fire"

It never entered My mind

As I am reading through Isaiah and Jeremiah, there is a reoccurring mention of Israel's and Judah's rebellion and unfaithfulness. Specifically, I noted the abhorrent practice of infant sacrifice that 'God's chosen people' adopted from surrounding nations. I also noticed how vehemently God speaks against this practice:

“They have built the high places of Topheth (means 'fire place') in the Valley of Ben Hinnom (Gehenna) to burn their sons and daughters in the fire – something I did not command, nor did it enter My mind.”                                                                                                           - Jer. 7:31

In the NASB, they translate Jer. 19:5 (which basically repeats the above verse) as, “...a thing which I never commanded or spoke of, nor did it ever enter My mind...”

Jeremiah 32:35 again reiterates this sin and states, “...nor did it enter my mind... that they should do such a detestable thing...”

As I read about this detestable practice of placing children in the burning arms of the idol Molech (or Baal) to suffer in the fire, it reminds me of this idea of eternal conscious torment. Except in this scenario, those that God 'fathered' (created) will be thrown in the fire and instead of dying, they will be kept alive to suffer this burning forever.

Tell me, could a fate such as this ever come from the Father's mind?

Christians - is this what you believe?

You are about to read some disturbing descriptions about hell. As they say, if it is true then it ought to be taught to the world. However, we don't hear many pastors preaching the old fire and brimstone sermons much these days. So terribly unpopular they are.

Personally, I am relieved that traditionalists are mostly ashamed and embarrassed by their doctrine of hell and therefore have retreated to silence on the subject. Whatever the reason, I am thankful for silence when it comes to false teaching. Of course, if it were a solid Bible teaching, then no matter the cost it would need to be spoken.

"Traditionalists believe that Jesus taught about hell to scare people from it, and that everyone who follows Him ought to do the same. In this day, therefore, when many traditionalists work so hard to minimize the gross horror of their own doctrine, preaching samples of traditionalists from an earlier age are in order."1

"When thou diest thy soul will be tormented alone - that will be a hell for it - but at the day of judgment thy body will join they soul, and then thou wilt have twin hells, body and soul shall be together, each brimful of pain, thy soul sweating in its inmost pore drops of blood and thy body from head to foot suffused with agony; conscience, judgment, memory, all tortured... Thine heart beating high with fever they pulse rattling at an enormous rate in agony, thy limbs cracking like the martyrs in the fire and yet unburnt, thyself put in a vessel of hot oil, pained yet coming out undestroyed, all thy veins becoming a road for the hot feet of pain to travel on, every nerve a string on which the devil shall ever play his diabolical tune...If God be true, and this Bible be true, what I have said is the truth, and you will find it one day to be so."   - Spurgeon

If that quote from Spurgeon is not graphic enough for you, how about this colorful description by A.W. Pink:

"So it will be with the soul in Hell... imagine yourself to be cast into a fiery oven, all of a glowing heat, or into the midst of a blowing brick-kiln, or of a great furnace, where your pain would be as much greater than that occasioned by accidentally touching a coal of fire, as the heat is greater. Imagine also that your body were to lie there for a quarter of an hour, full of fire, as full within and without as a bright coal of fire, all the while full of quick sense; what horror would you feel at the entrance of such a furnace! And how long would that quarter of an hour seem to you!...And how much greater would be the effect, if you knew you must endure it for a whole year, and low vastly greater still, if you knew, that you must bear it forever and ever!... That after millions of millions of ages, your torment would be no nearer to an end, than ever it was; and that you never, never should be delivered!But your torment in Hell will be immeasurably greater than this illustration represents. How then will the heart of a poor creature sink under it! How utterly inexpressible and inconceivable must the sinking of the soul be in such a case."

So, Christian, is this what you believe? When a believer mocks the idea that the Bible teaches destruction as a final end, and holds out eternal conscious torment as the 'truth', then why do they not profess the forever torments as our bold friend Mr. Pink does?

"In popular traditionalist preaching and writing, hell 'is almost invariably understood as a real, material, inextinguishable fire, ceaselessly tormenting the damned.' And, if that is what Scripture reaches, no one who believes the Bible has any right to object... If God's Word teaches that hell will be the scene of unending conscious torment, it should be preached as a terrible place of unimaginable pain and horror. If the traditionalist view of hell is correct, most of its modern advocates owe their fire-and-brimstone ancestors a profound apology. The fundamental issue is not whether the pain is physical or spiritual, literal or metaphorical. The issue is whether Scripture intends to denote conscious suffering that never ends, of whatever sort or description."2

"Rather than make apologies for such vivid and earthy descriptions of unending torment, traditionalists ought to emulate them all the more. If the wicked are to be made immortal for the purpose of enduring everlasting torture in agony, writers like Pink and preachers like Spurgeon do sinners an inestimable favor by making that very, very plain.

We ought not to retreat from the language of... Spurgeon and Edwards on grounds that is is unduly harsh, out of step with postmodern sentiment, or that it is intolerant or politically incorrect. We should instead reject all such statements because they are unscriptural, lack any biblical basis, and represent a theological dogma whose history we can trace back through the centuries to its first explicit pronouncement among Christians more than a hundred years after Jesus. Traditionalism did not originate in an exegesis of Scripture, and its advocates admit that it contradicts what the Bible repeatedly appears to say. Traditionalism's problem is not that it is unsympathetic but that it is unscriptural. Scripture - not sympathy - provides its only cure."3

If you have doubts about hell and the fact that it seems unbiblical, do not be overcome with guilt, as if you are going against God. Instead, study out the subject in full, depending on the Holy Spirit as your guide to truth, and then make your judgment. You may find that the shame and embarrassment you feel about this hell doctrine are founded afterall.

1,2,3 - Edward Fudge, "The Fire That Consumes", pgs. 362-365