Neither root nor branch

For me, this is a sad story. There was once a tree - a very tall and strong spruce tree - that lived in Alaska. This tree was a bit too close to a certain house (my house), and a certain someone (my husband) decided it needed to go.

When that mighty tree fell, I was thankful my husband knew what he was doing (since my house was in immediate danger). It landed with such force it shook the ground. How the mighty have fallen! But even then, as a stump, it still had some potential at life. There was the hearty and extensive root system that gave it hope of life again.

It reminded me of Daniel chapter 4 where the king has a dream whose interpretation likens him to a great tree that gets chopped down. God planned to humble and then restore him. "Cut down the tree and destroy it, but leave the stump...while its roots remain in the ground... The command to leave the stump of the tree with its roots means that our kingdom will be restored to you when you acknowledge that Heaven rules." (4:23, 26)

Then they brought the backhoe in and started ripping up the roots all around the stump. After that, the big dozer ripped the stump out with its huge tap roots. It pained me to watch the total destruction. There would be no chance of life for that tree. You can see the result below: an empty space, with hardly a trace of the mighty spruce that once proudly stood. I heard talk of burning up the pile of roots or hauling it to the dump. Gone.

As I watched this destruction, the phrase 'neither root nor branch' kept running through my head. So, I went to blueletterbible.com and looked it up. This verse describes the 'Day' of judgment:

"For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff, and the day that is coming will set them ablaze," says the LORD of hosts, "so that it will leave them neither root nor branch." - Malachi 4:1

Its meaning now more clear than ever. The total destruction of the evildoer is indeed an unnecessary, sad story.


Please leave a comment. I value any feedback - critical, supportive, or interrogative (questions)!

Julie - this one's for you

I need to begin by asking for your forgiveness! Writing it down, this sounds kind of ridiculous, but will you forgive me for not mentioning this part of my life to you? I've been writing this blog for one year now, and it is clearly very important to me. So, why have I never mentioned it?

First, let me back up.

To be honest, I haven't given this much thought at all (bringing up my blog). Then, tonight, it just hit me like a bag of rocks on my head! You are one of the most important people in my life and I know I can share anything with you, no matter what 'side' of the subject we are on. But, it suddenly occurred to me that there is no proper reason for not sharing this part of me with you, as it is a BIG part of me. It is very important to me. So my important subject and you, my important friend, should have met a long time ago. Plus, you are part of the reason it has come about (more on that later).

There are reasons, of course. Or excuses, I guess. The first being, compared to real-life challenges, my thoughts on this disturbing doctrine seemed irrelevant and not worthy of taking up any of our phone time. Second, it is 'extreme Bible study' - deep theological thought - and I just assumed (bad, I know, sorry) that it would not be something you would find interesting.

But it just hit me minutes ago - you aren't concerned with those kinds of  'reasons' so much as you care about me and what I do and think. And if I know you, you care about what I write because it is a part of me. The subject isn't why or why not you'd care. You care because it is part of me.

That's wonderful.

So, thank you. I am going out on a limb here, but I think I know you well enough to thank you for that. Sure, I imagine you'll scold me a bit. Maybe call me a term of endearment like 'turkey' or 'blockhead'. I deserve it!

So, why does this blog's origins have to do with you? Wellll, you remember all our religious talks in the past and my concern for you getting 'saved'? Yeah, not something easily forgotten. I was never able to reconcile the idea of hell, but the thought of YOU going there just did not compute. Sure, we are all sinners and we need Jesus' sacrifice to cover us - but to take a precious human (full of life, love and extraordinary talents) and torture them forever because they don't share our theology - that just sent my brain katty-wampus.

For years I suspended that part of my 'religion' to save my sanity, but finally I just dealt with it head-on. Just me and Jesus. God's word and the Holy Spirit as my teachers. And what He showed me sent me down a path that has changed my life and thinking.

Of course, there is much more to the story - but for the sake of privacy and keeping it short, let's just say that this path has busted open a view to Father God that is nothing less than life-changing.

I'm thankful to Him, I'm thankful to you. I'm thankful to Him for you. (I'm not the only one that is a gift from God! *wink*)

Love you, sister!
Theresa

Co-author of Erasing Hell changed his position on hell

Check out these excerpts from an article about the co-author of a book that traditionalists point to as they try to prove that eternal torment is the most biblical view. Especially take note of the very last sentence!*

"Most are unaware that since co-authoring the book, Erasing Hell with Francis Chan* (chiefly a rebuttal to Love Wins), Dr. Preston Sprinkle has publicly disclosed his struggle with the “eternal conscious torment” doctrine and has confessed his strong leanings toward Conditional Immortality or annihilationism as a more Biblical view. His recent thoughts on the subject can be found at the site “Rethinking Hell”:

http://www.rethinkinghell.com/tag/erasing-hell/

Here are a few snippets from an interview with Chris Date of RethinkingHell.com:

Dr. Sprinkle: “…honestly I got so annoyed and frustrated at all the books and articles that were supporting the Traditionalist view, it irritated me to no end. It just seemed very, and I’m definitely not going to name any names, very heartless. They were ranting and raving, almost like they were angry about people who disagreed with their view. And I was like, ‘We’re talking about souls here. Do you realize we’re talking about real people here?!’ It angered me because these are Evangelical writers who are talking about what they think as a doctrine. This ain’t no doctrine, either this is real or its not. And if it’s real then we need to study this with tears and agony…whichever view…because either view is miserable.”

...The conversation then uncovers some false assumptions regarding the Jewish mindset regarding “eternity,” the word “aeonios” and several other hot topics in the debate:

Chris Date: “… Traditionalist authors sometime claim that 1st century Jews were sort of monolithic in their belief in eternal torment, but as you mentioned or sort of hinted at a couple of times here that’s not what you found in your research, is it?”

Dr. Preston Sprinkle: “Not at all, no. I could give you specific references in Jewish documents that are very clearly Annihilationists. In fact that logic shows that whoever said that doesn’t know anything about Judaism because a lot of Jews didn’t have a firm belief in an everlasting afterlife at all.”

Chris presses further to clarify that Dr. Sprinkle has indeed changed his view since co-authoring Erasing Hell:

Chris Date: “…before the book and when the book was published, like Chan, you leaned towards the traditional view. I don’t get the impression that’s the case any longer. So where do you find yourself now and what since the publishing of Erasing Hell has gotten you there?”

Dr. Preston Sprinkle: “Yeah I would say…I would lean towards annihilation now…But I’m not one to hide what I believe. Again going back to my college, one of the blessings of working at a school like that is that…there’s no like weird doctrinal statement that threatens my job at all…[It’s]Be biblical, love Jesus, preach the Gospel, and we’ll keep you on here. So there’s no threat from my church, or from family, or from anyone…there’s nothing like that that’s pressuring me to hold on to a traditional view. I’m kind of a slow thinker in a sense that I don’t mind taking a few years to really work through something before I ultimately land. So going back to your question I would say I lean towards annihilation.”

I am not sure if readers of Erasing Hell clued in to a very definitive summary statement by Chan and Sprinkle in their book. It was easy to miss if you were looking to the book to support your already assumed view of an eternal hell. But Chan and Sprinkle stated clearly that the bottom line was that after all their prayer and study they remained unsure as to the duration and nature of hell and advised us to not make any assumptions until we have studied further. I realize that statement was made within a book that for the most part appeared to be making a VERY dogmatic case for eternal conscious torment but Dr. Sprinkle’s recent admission now gives a lot more credence to their advice on page 86:

“The debate about hell’s duration is much more complex than I first assumed. While I lean heavily on the side that says it is everlasting, I am not ready to claim that with complete certainty. I encourage you to continue researching…”

For Sprinkle at least, he would have to change that statement to say he is leaning more heavily towards Conditional Immortality these days. We are thankful for his transparency and honesty regarding his new thoughts on this issue. Even more so we deeply appreciate how he reminds us that this is not about a doctrine but about precious human beings who are made in God’s image. Yes, we had better decide if this is real…as Dr. Sprinkle reminded us, “it’s real people we are talking about.”

*Note: In the interview Dr. Sprinkle explains how he himself did the majority of the research for Erasing Hell as Chan shared that he did not have the time to write a book at that particular time."



Find this article at: http://www.christianuniversalism.com/2013/03/co-author-of-erasing-hell-changing-his-position-on-hell/  (underlines are mine)

See my thoughts on the book "Erasing Hell" here.

Sprouting eyes to see it

I'm writing these thoughts today to encourage others who have discovered that the traditional hell doctrine is largely unbiblical - and they feel alone in that discovery, as if seeing things no one else can see.

Remember William Wilberforce from the previous post? He and his friends also experienced this phenomenon of exposing a truth - only to be rejected or ignored by the majority (and most notably the powers that were).

“But how is it possible that humanity for so long tolerated what to us is so obviously intolerable? And why did just one small group of people...suddenly see this injustice for what it was? Why in a morally blind world did Wilberforce and a few others suddenly sprout eyes to see it? [They] were something like the characters in horror films who have seen “the monster” and are trying to tell everyone else about it – and no one believes them.” 1

I'm not comparing myself to Wilberforce, but on a smaller scale, it feels as if I've 'seen the monster': eternal conscious torment teaching - and am trying to tell others... but many don't care or even want to investigate to see if it be true. To some, the monster is not monstrous enough - or at least they believe it is a monster placed in our doctrine by God, so it must be tolerated.

Again, I can relate to how Wilberforce must have felt when sharing with seemingly decent human beings the facts on the slave trade - and the facts made no headway in their hearts and mind:

“He hadn't yet seen that respectable gentlemen and noblemen, when presented with evils and cruelties more horrible than they had ever dreamed, would nonetheless yawn and shrug and turn away, or that, given what seemed an exceedingly clear choice between good and evil, they would choose evil... he could hardly believe that others wouldn't leap to do what was right when they finally knew the facts. He was mistaken.” 2

I was naive in my expectations as well. When the facts about ECT are laid out, the case against it is so powerful that I was confident any sincere, Bible-believing follower of Jesus would rush to investigate further and respond in an appropriate manner. I, too, was mistaken.

Then, because of self-consciousness, or perhaps because of the horrid disease of pride called "it's all about me," I thought that people didn't listen or outright rejected the subject because of me. I was the wrong messenger. I was not respectable, not a man, nor seminary educated. And although all that may be true, it turns out the reluctance to re-examine our hell doctrine is a common phenomenon among Christians.

I have to admit, it was comforting to find other believers (respectable, educated men even) who also experienced the very same phenomenon. Greg Stump, in the excellent book "Rethinking Hell: Readings in Evangelical Conditionalism," writes:

"My abiding interest in hell, and the reason why I've poured so much of my thought, resources and conviction into this topic, has to do with the fact that there are so many Christians who claim quite confidently that hell will consist of eternal conscious torment, yet I personally... have found the biblical, theological, and philosophical evidence for this perspective to be weak and insubstantial. In contrast, I discovered that the case for conditional immortality and the final destruction of the unsaved was comprehensive and compelling...

And yet despite my own experience of the inferiority of the traditional view and the seemingly clear evidence and scriptural basis of the conditionalist view, there were so many other thoughtful and intelligent believers who have claimed the exact opposite - in fact, ECT has been the position of the majority of Christians throughout church history. And this is what has made me, and so many others, obsess over the issue.

How can it be that the evidence in favor of conditionalism appears so clear to those of us who have been convinced and yet is received with such skepticism by our fellow Christians? This experience is baffling, having an almost Kafkaesque quality to it, and it is honestly what has driven my own obsessive interest in the topic." 3

I've received messages from believers who felt like they were the only ones in their church to find the doctrine of traditional hell to be unscriptural. They even feel like heretics. Like outsiders. I certainly know how you feel. If it weren't for my husband, I would also be quite alone in this. Yes, we have the Lord, but there is something so very powerful in a united community.

Even so, my friend, be encouraged. After I sprouted eyes to see, it was soon made clear to me that there is a great and growing number of believers who share the same view. So many of them, in fact, that there is a name for this fellowship: conditionalists (simply meaning folks who believe that God's gift of eternal life is conditional). You are certainly not alone.

For those who have eyes to see, those who are sprouting eyes, and for those yet to see - please visit the website Rethinkinghell.com and learn what they have to teach. Don't just give lip service to believing Scripture alone, walk in it! And see.


1  Amazing Grace: William Wilberforce and the Heroic Campaign to End Slavery by Eric Metaxas. Harper Collins Publishers, New York, NY, 2007, p. xiv
2  Ibid, p. 121
3 "Rethinking Hell: Readings in Evangelical Conditionalism", edited by Chris Date, Greg Stump and Joshua Anderson with a foreword by John G. Stackhouse. Cascade Books, Eugene, Oregon. 2014.

Hell on earth, and then...?

"If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent."                                                                                                     - spoken by Jesus in Matthew 12:7

My son just finished a research paper on the fascinating life of William Wilberforce (1759-1833), "the greatest social reformer in the history of the world." (Metaxas, p. xvii)  He is best known for his 20-year battle - and ultimate victory - for the abolition of the slave trade in England.

We watched the movie "Amazing Grace" and read the book by the same name and became inspired by Mr. Wilberforce's great faith and perseverance in the face of great resistance. Another aspect that affected me deeply was realizing and contemplating the overwhelming injustice and suffering that occurred over so many years to millions of human beings.

The bulk of the English slave trade was carried out on ships that transported men, women and children (usually kidnapped) from Africa to the West Indies (called the 'Middle Passage' to be sold as slaves.

“One famous account of the Middle Passage comes to us via Alexander Falconbridge, a ship's surgeon in the trade...

'The hardships and inconveniences suffered by the Negroes during the passage are scarcely to be enumerated or conceived. They are far more violently affected by seasickness than Europeans. It frequently terminates in death, especially among the women. But the exclusion of fresh air is among the most intolerable... The fresh air being thus excluded, the Negroes' rooms soon grow intolerable hot. The confined air, rendered noxious by the effluvia exhaled from their bodies and being repeatedly breathed, soon produces fevers and [diarrhea] which generally carries off great numbers of them... But the excessive heat was not the only thing that rendered their situation intolerable. The deck, that is the floor of their rooms, was so covered with the blood and mucus which had proceeded from them...that it resembled a slaughter-house. It is not in the power of the human imagination to picture a situation more dreadful or disgusting.'” 

“Falconbridge told of a worse situation on a Liverpool ship that, though smaller than the one just described, took on six hundred slaves, who 'were so crowded that they were obliged to lie one upon another. This caused such a mortality among them that...nearly one half of them died before the ship arrived in the West Indies.'” (Metaxas, p. 97-99)

I'm certain the horrors of this business are beyond being articulated in words. However, these quotes are first-hand accounts that were used in speeches before Parliament in the fight to abolish the evil trade. The suffering and ill-treatment should be recounted; consider what they had to live and die through...

“The place allotted for the sick Negroes is under the half deck, where they lie on the bare planks. By this means those who are emaciated frequently have their skin and even their flesh entirely rubbed off, by the motion of the ship, from the prominent parts of the shoulders, elbows, and hips so as to render the bones quite bare. The excruciating pain which the poor sufferers feel from being obliged to continue in such a dreadful situation, frequently for several weeks, in case they happen to live so long, is not to be conceived or described.”  (Metaxas, p. 100)

And, of course, there is so much more - much worse abuse and injustice that these men, women and children suffered. I also read the book "The Kidnapped Prince: The Life of Olaudah Equiano". This is Equiano's life story in his own words. As a boy, he was taken by force from his home in Africa, sold over and over, abused, almost dying several times before buying his freedom and residing in London, where he joined the abolitionists in their cause. His book was a best-seller. It is a captivating story. Truthfully, someone like me, a pampered American, can hardly imagine the terrors he experienced.

"Nearly every day some of my companions were brought up on the deck at the point of death. I hoped that I would soon die, too. Often I thought that the inhabitants of the deep were much happier than I. I envied the fish their freedom, and I wished I could have changed my lot for theirs."  (Equiano, p. 29)

The reason I share all of these descriptions, is to invite you into my thinking. When I consider the great suffering and, at times, completely wasted lives of these particular Africans at that time in history - literally millions of them - I also consider our ridiculous theology. I can't help but recall the doctrine of hell and the many, many times I have heard the teaching/preaching that states unequivocally that those who haven't heard of Jesus will suffer in hell forever. The vast majority of these Africans never heard of Jesus.

I wish I had the grace of William Wilberforce right now, as he always petitioned for justice without condemning. I'm sorry, but I just can't fathom that Christians would believe our Lord and Savior would allow human beings to suffer untold atrocities at the hands of men on earth, and then - because they were not brought the good news - are to be thrown into hell for eternity!

Those who believe this did not get their doctrine from the Bible. That theology - this traditional view of hell - came from men and the teaching of men through the centuries. Show me one place in the Bible where it teaches that Gentiles will go into the eternal fire for not hearing the Gospel. Even in the parable of the sheep and the goats, the judgment is based on what one DOES for another. Did you feed, clothe, visit, help the least of these?

By all means, obey Jesus and make disciples, explaining to them the Way of life. We are to be about the Father's work and sharing the Gospel to the ends of the earth - but NOT because if we don't all those people will be tormented forever in hell. Friends, it may be time for a new start. Go to the Word. Not man's words, but THE WORD. Go back and read the Scriptures as if a babe, and hear God's words as if you didn't have preconceived theology coloring the eyes of your understanding.

Take to heart the warning, "Do not go beyond what is written." (1 Cor. 4:6) and consider Paul's exhortation: "...judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts." (1 Cor. 4:5)

If you could choose what happens eternally to those kidnapped, tortured and murdered Africans - what would you choose? The comforting arms of 'Abraham's bosom' or the fiery torment that longs for a drop of water on the tongue? I know, I know, you are not God. But what would you choose? Is your mercy and compassion beyond our Lord's? Is our sense of justice greater than Jesus'? That is ridiculous!

"I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." - Ex. 33:19, Rom. 9:15

"Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy." - Mic. 7:18

"But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." - Matt. 9:13

"Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy." - Matt. 5:7

"He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy." - Titus 3:5

"...judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment." - James 2:13

"The Lord is full of compassion and mercy." - James 5:11

I doubt Wilberforce fought his whole life to liberate the slaves, thinking they would spend eternity in fiery torment. I, for one, trust in the mercy of the Lord. I would much rather fall into the Hands of God than the hands of man. Who are we to say whom the Lord will show mercy? His ways are higher than our ways.

Thank God.

"Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and He will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD."                         - Isaiah 55:7

Amazing Grace: William Wilberforce and the Heroic Campaign to End Slavery by Eric Metaxas. Harper Collins Publishers, New York, NY, 2007.

The Kidnapped Prince: The Life of Olaudah Equiano by Olaudah Equiano, adapted by Ann Cameron. Alfred A. Knopf, New York. 1995.

A Mommy Moment

As I was driving home yesterday – in a hurry – I ran into a bit of a traffic jam on our expressway. That may not be unusual for most cities, but this is Interior Alaska – we rarely get bogged down in traffic, unless there is construction going on. Needless to say, I was annoyed and wondered what WAS the hold up?

As it turned out, everyone was being bottle-necked to pass by a trooper who was quietly, slowly driving down the left lane with all his lights flashing. He was escorting an extremely disconcerted mother duck and her adorable train of baby ducklings. I was able to get a really good look at the out-of-place duck family as I slowly passed the reason for my delay.

That momma duck was waddling at top speed down the side of the expressway with her bill in the air quacking loudly in distress. But she kept going. Her obedient children followed in a perfect line, not daring to stray as dozens of big vehicles passed by on this hot, summer day.

My impatient scowl turned into a smile and I was glad someone was watching over them. Then suddenly, I was overwhelmed with empathetic compassion for that mother duck. It seemed like I knew just how she felt. With her voice calling up to God, “Oh dear Lord, I've really got myself and my kids in a bad situation. I am so scared. Please help me! I don't know what to do!”

Actual tears came to my eyes as I put myself in her place. The poor mama was really in a dangerous predicament - but then there was that trooper car protectively driving beside and behind them. She didn't know it, but that officer would watch over them the whole journey – until they arrived safely into the river.

God does the same for us. I know when I've gotten myself into dumb, dangerous or impossible situations, God has gently and quietly guided me back to calm waters. He is especially tender with moms and their children.

“He tends His flock like a shepherd: He gathers the lambs in His arms and carries them close to His heart; He gently leads those that have young.” - Is. 40:11 

“The LORD is good, a refuge in times of trouble. He cares for those who trust in Him.” - Nah. 1:7

In most cases, fathers and mothers are endowed with a God-given love and protective instinct for their children. The care we give our children - along with the ability to long-suffer through transgressions, sickness and hard work – is a picture and an example of how our Heavenly Father cares for us. For more examples of how God teaches us about spiritual realities through earthly experiences, please read “There's Water – and then there's the Living Water”.

“For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.” - John 3:16

Who can dwell with everlasting burning?

Here is an interesting question posed in Isaiah 33:

"Who of us can dwell with the consuming fire? Who of us can dwell with everlasting burning?" (v. 14)

When we hear a description about people dwelling with everlasting burning, many of us think of hell. Because, of course, where else will people dwell with fire and burning, right?

Let's not guess about the answer. It follows in Isaiah 33:15-17 (and beyond) and describes in detail who can dwell with consuming fire and everlasting burning. The answer is:

"He who walks righteously and speaks what is right...

...who rejects gain from extortion and keeps his hand from accepting bribes,
who stops his ears against plots of murder and shuts his eyes against contemplating evil -
this is the man who will dwell on the heights,
whose refuge will be the mountain fortress.
His bread will be supplied, and water will not fail him.
Your eyes will see the king in his beauty and view a land that stretches afar."

What will happen to sinners and the godless in the face of the fire of judgment? The answer is also found in Isaiah 33 (among many other Scriptures), verses 11-12:

"You conceive chaff, you give birth to straw;
your breath is a fire that consumes you.
The peoples will be burned as if to lime;
like cut thorn bushes they will be set ablaze."

This is similar language to Luke 3:17 when John explains how Jesus will deal ultimately with His people (the wheat) and the wicked (the chaff): 

"His winnowing fork is in His hand to clear His threshing floor and to gather the wheat into His barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable (meaning that it can't be put out) fire."

Who will dwell with the everlasting fire? Only the righteous born again in Jesus - everyone and everything else will be burned up.

For a more thorough study on God's fire, please see "Everyone will be salted with fire".

The last enemy

I watched a movie recently that had an unusually dramatic emotional impact on me. It is called “The Book Thief”. It was only a fictional story based on the book of the same name, but still I wept bitterly and sobbed to God as I considered the darkness and suffering that exists in our world.

The film was about a young girl who is adopted by an older couple in Nazi Germany; the family attempts to hide a Jewish man in their basement. The narrator follows all of the characters in the film to their death. The horrors and sorrows of war and evil were conveyed so poignantly.

Interestingly, the narrator of the movie was Death himself. He seemed a bit smug when he stated with deep-voiced certainty, “No one lives forever.”

"The Grim Reaper" by Funerium

In one way, he was correct; our mortal bodies will either die or be transformed (1 Cor. 15:51-52). Ironically, not even Death will 'live forever'. One day he will also be abolished. Of course, they didn't mention this in the movie, but it is mentioned – many times – in the Scriptures.

“He will swallow up death forever.” - Isaiah 25:8a

“The last enemy to be destroyed is death.” - 1 Cor. 15:26

“Death has been swallowed up in victory.” - 1 Cor. 15:54b

“...our Savior Christ Jesus...abolished death...” - 2 Tim. 1:10

“...there will no longer be any death...” - Rev. 21:4

How will God abolish, destroy and swallow up this 'last enemy'? He will accomplish this in the same way He will abolish, destroy and swallow up all evil and wickedness - in the lake of fire.

“Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.” - Rev. 20:14

So, the first death will be destroyed by the second death. What kind of place is this lake of fire that can abolish the wages of sin (Rom. 6:23, 7:11)? Since God will make an end of sin (Dan. 9:24, Heb. 9:26), and sin gives birth to death (James 1:15), then it follows that death also will be taken out of the picture.

Goodbye sin, goodbye death! The darkness and old order of things will pass away (1 John 2:8, Rev. 21:4) – the world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever (1 John 2:17). Indeed, all things will be made new! (Rev. 21:5)

Sorry, Death - your power is limited and your days are numbered – so don't be so proud. Yes, I mourned and cried about your reign in this world, but a day is coming when all God's enemies will be destroyed – and you will be the last of them!

[For more information, you can read my Bible studies about what will happen to God's enemies in “The Adversaries” and also "The Wicked He Will Destroy" ]

The fiery furnace

"Alaska Birch" by Theresa Gomes

We are friends with an ambitious family who produces and sells birch syrup. They tap birch trees all over interior Alaska and boil it down into a delicious brown syrup. Imagine this: it takes 100 gallons of birch sap to make 1 gallon of birch syrup! To help this process, they purchased an impressive evaporator machine that is fueled by a firebox. 

This firebox is chilling - you could fit a person in there. They have affectionately named it "the fiery furnace" as sometimes the heat is so severe that you have to shield your face to feed it more wood.

Naturally, I couldn't help but think about hell as I gazed into the fire.

And my thoughts went something like this: "Look at those burning coals. What if I put my hand in there? What kind of pain would that produce? What if I was stuffed in there and the door shut? Who could imagine the agony experienced until the moment of death. But, what if I didn't die? What if I was unable to die and was kept alive and conscious to experience the fiery, excruciating pain? There are people who believe this. Some Christians actually believe this is what will happen to certain sinners. They believe that God Himself will keep people alive with the purpose of tormenting them - not even for a long time, but forever. Who could believe that? Who could truly believe that without going insane? To believe Jesus would do that would drive a believer mad. The Jesus I know would not do that!!!"

The only way a person could remain consciously tormented for an eternity (ETERNITY, folks) would be if God Himself chose, and continued to choose, to make them alive and unable to die to the suffering, which traditionalists purport will be unending.

Yes, Jesus will make an end of sin - but not by the means of torture. Jesus will make all things new. His plan is to get rid of evil! No more sin, no more death, no more sickness and pain - no more wicked. Destruction in the lake of fire fits perfectly with God's plan. It is just while merciful. The wages of sin is death, while the gift of eternal life is given to the redeemed. Destruction in the lake of fire is eternal - there is no coming back - it is indeed a final punishment.

I will never be able to gaze at hot coals again without thinking on these things. It's true, the thoughts are emotional, but then again God gave us the ability to think and emote. Perhaps if we all took a few minutes to consider our doctrine, a closer look would be called for.

So, take a moment. Look closer at the fiery furnace. What do you see?

"Through me the message might be fully proclaimed"

Paul is one of our most valuable teachers in the Bible. He declares, "I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ" (Romans 13:19) and "...the Lord stood at my side and gave me strength, so that through me the message might be fully proclaimed..." (2 Tim. 4:17).

In this day, Bible teacher Dirk Waren compiled a comprehensive list of instances in Paul's teachings where he expounds on judgment and punishment. I found this list compelling - it reveals that the traditionalist idea of eternal torment is absent. The point is, of course, that if eternal conscious suffering was a future reality Paul would have boldly proclaimed that, as well.

Instead...

"Paul fully proclaimed the whole counsel of God by plainly declaring:

That those who live a lifestyle of unrepentant sin “deserve death” — Romans 1:32

That “all who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law” — Romans 2:12

That sin “leads to death” — Romans 6:16

That sin “results in death” — Romans 6:21

That “the wages of sin is death” — Romans 6:23

That those who live according to the sinful nature “will die” — Romans 8:13

That the gospel is foolishness “to those who are perishing” — 1 Corinthians 1:18

That “in Adam all die” — 1 Corinthians 15:22

That those who preach the gospel are “the smell of death” “to those who are perishing” — 2 Corinthians 2:15-16

That the Old Testament law “kills” and ultimately brings “death” — 2 Corinthians 3:6-7

That the gospel is “veiled to those who are perishing” — 2 Corinthians 4:3

That those who please the sinful nature “from that nature will reap destruction” – Galatians 6:8

That “they will be destroyed” — Philippians 1:28

That “their destiny is destruction” — Philippians 3:19

That “they will be punished with everlasting destruction” — 2 Thessalonians 1:9

That they “are perishing” — 2 Thessalonians 2:10

That “they perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved” — 2 Thessalonians 2:10

That “Christ Jesus… has destroyed death” — 2 Timothy 1:10

We can add these four if Paul was the writer of Hebrews:

That they are like worthless land that will “in the end… be burned” — Hebrews 6:8

That sins are “acts that lead to death” — Hebrews 9:14

That raging fire “will consume the enemies of God” — Hebrews 10:27

That those who “shrink back” in unbelief will be “destroyed” — Hebrews 10:39

"In various ways with various words Paul was sure to repeatedly declare precisely what would happen to those who foolishly reject the gospel. He was sure to do this because God appointed him to fully proclaim the whole counsel of God. Paul didn’t hide any aspect of the truth — including the awful truth that those who reject Christ will be utterly destroyed by the raging, consuming fire of the Lord. If words have any meaning at all then this is what we must conclude."

"Allow me to add that if Jesus supposedly preached eternal torture, as many contend, then Paul would have certainly backed it up. Yet Paul taught no such thing because Jesus taught no such thing, not to mention the Bible they taught from — what we now know as the Old Testament — teaches no such thing."

To see the full study: The_Apostle_Paul_Proclaimed_The_Whole_Will_of_God by Dirk Waren

Recommended Reading: Hell Know! by Dirk Waren

Conversation starter

This would not be your average conversation. No, this is the conversation about hell.

I finally watched the movie "Hellbound" on Netflix, and it exceeded my expectations. The movie is well made and gives a platform to different views. In my opinion, it is slanted towards Universalism, but works well as a springboard for much soul-searching and even more Scripture searching. I recommend the movie for older audiences.

I'm not crazy about the movie cover; it makes the film seem a bit mocking. No matter. Rather it is a serious documentary with a variety of voices. If you would like to own the movie, visit hellboundthemovie.com and find it there, along with many other resources, including my blog site!

Are you more like Lazarus - or the rich man?

What about that poor beggar Lazarus, anyway? (Read Luke 16:19-31) We don't really know much about him. I wish we had more information. Was he a righteous man? Did he know the Law? What did he do - besides suffer sickness, homelessness, hunger and death - that made him deserving of all that comfort?

"And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at [the rich man's] gate, covered with sores, and longing to be fed with the crumbs that were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. Now the poor man died..."  - Luke 16:20-22

Jesus was speaking to and directing this parable at the Pharisees (Luke 16:14). What was his message to them? They were smugly believing that Hades (Hebrew: Sheol) was reserved for those quite unlike themselves. They themselves were well-groomed, religious, better than others, "blessed" with prosperity. Oh, how Jesus offended them - and they were scoffing at Him!

Perhaps those of us here in the abundance of America should feel a bit tremulous as we reflect on Jesus’ words: “But woe to you who are rich, for you are receiving your comfort in full. Woe to you who are well-fed now, for you shall be hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you shall mourn and weep." (Luke 6:24-25) I, for one, know that I have always been well-fed. Compared to 95% of the world, we are all very rich in the U.S., isn’t that right?

So, as we consider Jesus' parable, we should ask ourselves, "Who do I identify with more: Lazarus or the rich man?"


Taken from:  The Parable about Hell - or Not

Book review: Erasing Hell

I am finally writing a review of sorts on the book Erasing Hell by Francis Chan and Preston Sprinkle as promised in one of my early posts called “Erasing Hell: What a great idea”* (see link below). I read the book back in the days of my intense study on final judgment when a defender of hell suggested it as a solution to my concerns.

I actually like Francis Chan from what I can discern about him. He seems very sincere and passionate and wants to be humble. The introduction in the book was so familiar, like something I could have written. It gave me hope he would present a biblical, well thought-out study on the subject. In fact, the first part of the book does give some good, basic information on the doctrine of hell and the passages commonly associated with that subject.

I was pleased that he came to the same conclusion as I did about the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Namely, that “...this passage doesn't refer to the final state of the wicked – only to a temporary state where the wicked await judgment.” 2 So, that parable does not teach about 'hell' (like Mr. Chan's friend and contemporary Mark Driscoll preaches) and that Hades is not the same as Gehenna - unfortunately, both words are translated as hell in many translations.

He discusses and makes a long and thorough case against universalism and Rob Bell. He also addresses annihilationism (a general term encompassing those who believe that the lake of fire will ultimately destroy the wicked) but does not shoot it down like he does with universalism. I was pleased that he gave credence to that view.

However, as he came to his conclusions, the annihilist view was completely forgotten. He concluded that the traditional doctrine of eternal torment in a place he continually called 'hell' was the only biblical truth he could endorse.

That is not only frustrating, but baffling! Mr. Chan goes through the trouble to give us the facts about final judgment, but then turns his back on a legitimate view of judgment as if he demonstrated it was false. Which he didn't!

They state in the book, “At times, Jesus seems to imply that hell won't last very long. 'Fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell,' Jesus says (Matt. 10:28). Destroy, not burn forever. This language of destruction is common not only in Jesus' words but also throughout Paul's letters.” (emphasis is Chan's) 3

They also write: “In almost every passage where Jesus mentions hell, he doesn't explicitly say that it will last forever. He speaks of torment, and we get the impression that hell is terrible, that it's a place to be avoided at all costs, but He doesn't clearly tell us how long it will last.” 4

Francis himself admits,“The debate about hell's duration is much more complex than I first assumed. While I lean heavily on the side that says it is everlasting, I am not ready to claim that with complete certainty. I encourage you to continue researching...” 5 So, bless his heart, he confesses that, for him, he realizes there is no certainty in eternal torment. Why are we not then teaching this? I did continue researching and the weight of Scripture has not come down on the side of eternal torment! That we would all take Francis Chan's advice on this point!

I have written over 40 posts on this subjects, but if you were to ask me where to go for 'further research' without the hours and hours of study (although I recommend this), I would send you to the following website, which I found recently (March 2015):

http://www.hellhadesafterlife.com/hell/hell-in-the-bible#My_BackgroundI_Used_to_Believe_in_Eternal_Torment

So, back to Erasing Hell. There is some good information in there, but just like any bit of information, if you have 90% truth and 10% error (or deceit) then you have an untrustworthy body of information.

I believe Chan's prayer in his introduction. He wants God's truth. I prayed almost the same prayer myself every time I sought to study the subject. The important part of seeking the truth in these extremely unclear areas is to realize that it is foolishness to claim absolute conclusions. Who can say, “I have figured out God's ways in the Judgment and this is how He will do things...”?

I am uncertain exactly how God will execute judgment on the world, but I have become increasingly confident that eternal torment is not part of God's ways or character. My goal is to bring this subject into the light of Scripture to be examined and scrutinized because the implications of eternal torment are, in my opinion, too great to accept without careful and labored attention.

The fact is, those who hold to conditionalism or annihilationism believe in 'hell' (although I don't choose to use that unbiblical word). It is the nature of hell that is on trial. It is our human traditions that are on trial. In other words, conditionalists are not trying to erase hell. To imply that they are is an erroneous view and, frankly, deceitful. By throwing annihilationism in with universalism (which I have seen repeatedly) robs believers of valuable information in forming their Scriptural world view. In this way, it is a shame that Erasing Hell was not more forthcoming and honest. As with many mainstream (approved) evangelical books, it had an agenda.

Wouldn't I love to sit down for coffee with Francis and have some hours of conversation on this topic, among others. As a sister and brother in Christ, getting to the heart of it all. Somehow, I think under all the political and peer pressure, past all the traditional contemporaries breathing down his back, deep down he senses something isn't right with eternal torment.

And he wouldn't be alone. Chan's co-author on this very book has changed his views from traditional to conditional.

"Hell is a crucial topic, especially for evangelicals. And it needs to be revisited. Rethinking Hell is doing the church a great service by stirring discussion and forcing us to read what the Bible says about Hell."  - Preston Sprinkle, co-author of Erasing Hell6

* http://thinkabouthell.blogspot.erasing-hell

2 Erasing Hell: What God said about eternity and the things we made up, Francis Chan and Preston Sprinkle, published by David C Cook, Colorado Springs, CO., p. 80, 89.

3 Chan and Preston, p. 79.

4 Chan and Preston, p. 81.

5 Chan and Preston, p. 86.
6 Rethinkinghell.com

The unbelievable-ness of eternal torment

My children and I are reading through the series The Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis. There is a humorous exchange in the book, The Horse and His Boy, when a rich and powerful princess was asked to make her servants keep a secret. This was her statement to them: “Here. All of you... anyone I catch talking about this... will be first beaten to death and then burned alive and after that be kept on bread and water for six weeks. There.”1 Although the threat was grave, it was not believable. The same phenomenon can be seen with the doctrine of hell.

Although many say they believe it, their actions seem to deny that.

This observation came up in the post “Confession: I've always hated hell”. Here is the excerpt:

“What is going on here that we can contend that such a reality exists without being overcome by holy fear? In addition, if we really believed this was the destiny of non-Christians all around us, wouldn’t there be weeping and begging and endless sorrowful prayer? Would you not make an outrageous commotion to save someone from a burning building? And even being burned alive on earth is temporary suffering. 

If we actually believe they all go to this hell, I say our hearts are yet stone. 

If we really believe it, when we stand before the King and Judge of creation, could He possibly ask what we have done in response to our belief about hell? 

Will there not be consequences as we stand before the Throne with this doctrine in our pocket, yet the sorrow of its implications lacking? Before we even get to the question ‘is it a true doctrine or not’, we need to ask: am I living what I say I believe? 

To believe in this hell is a fearful thing indeed. There is no avoiding the terrifying implications. In fact, it seems to me that it is such a horrifying concept that we really can’t get our brains around it – like the size of the universe. Who can imagine? 

I think one reason I have come to a burdensome place concerning this topic is because when I contemplate ‘what if it is really true?’ – then I kind of lose my mind. Maybe it’s just me, but I just can’t handle that reality – there is something so beyond horrifying, so much more than absolutely dreadful. And to think, I was just a decision away from being there. I deserve to be there just as much as my nice, Hindu neighbor – probably more. 

And just maybe I will stand in front of Jesus and say “Lord, Lord” and He’ll reply “I never knew you”! I just start to lose it, I feel like I’ll go crazy. I imagine being in hell – and I’m conscious of being there - and it never ends. I imagine my loved ones being there, who I just couldn’t convince – maybe I didn’t pray enough?... Oh, merciful God, how can it be true? 

Tell me, truly, do you believe it?”2

Conditional immortality determines from Scripture that those who do not inherit eternal life will be destroyed by experiencing the second death. This belief has been criticized as characterized by “sentimentality” but that consequence is actually fairly terrifying. Annihilation is a severe and permanent (eternal) punishment. It is not a walk in the park, as some traditionalists would try to paint it. Also, in light of God's mercy and justice and holy Word, it is believable.

John W. Wenham notes, “Conditionalists regard their doctrine as providing a more effective deterrent than the traditional teaching, on the ground that the latter is incredible to those who hear and is simply not believed. The point was put by a writer... 'We only imagine we believe it... Nothing that is over-strained, or seems exaggerated, strikes the Mind. Let a Schoolmaster tell his Scholar that his Father will hang him if he doth not study; he laughs at the Menace. It is too much disproportion'd both to his own Demerits, and the Idea he entertains of his Father's Equity.'”3

Do I know my Father in Heaven? Does His character as revealed in the Bible prove that He is capable of tormenting His creation for time without end? I try to avoid philosophic thinking, but at some point one needs to consider the reasonableness of it all – but always in the light of Scripture.

Does not God say, “Come now, and let us reason together.” (Is. 1:18)? He does, indeed, expect us to use our minds as we are able. Not independent of Him, but with Him. In total reliance and trust in Him. Abiding, knowing, seeking - “...I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord... that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection...” (Read Phil. 3)

I am certainly convicted as I copy those verses into a page of my own opinions. Do I know Him? Does He know me? This is my reminder to continue to strive to know Him and abide in Him. May we all know Him more. Dear Jesus, draw each of us closer to You, that we may say confidently with Your beloved disciple...

“We know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.” (1 John 5:20)

Now, that is something to believe.

1 C.S. Lewis, The Horse and His Boy, Collier Books, New York. 1954. p. 95.

2 http://thinkabouthell.blogspot.com/p/about-me-and-hell.html

3 John W. Wenham, The Goodness of God, InterVarsity Press, Downers Grove, IL. 1974. p. 37.